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In this special episode, Tom speaks to three of New Balance’s athletes: Kate Avery (20 Great Britain vests and 13 Europe medals across track and cross country), Zak Hanna (5th 2022 World Mountain and Trail Running Championships, 5th 2022 European Mountain Running Championships, 1st Matterhorn Ultraks Vertical) and Jacob Adkin (Gold and Silver individual medals at European Mountain Running Championship).

As well as chatting through their race successes, we discuss favourite training sessions, their top shoe choices and the events and challenges they’d each love to do.

Big thanks to Fear of Tigers for the killer intro music. You can listen to more of his stuff over at


If you're a facilities manager at a Warehouse and your HVAC system goes down It can turn up the heat literally but Don't sweat it Granger has you covered Granger offers over a million industrial Grade products for all your operations Including Warehouse HVAC maintenance and Even better they offer access to experts And fast delivery so you and your Warehouse can both keep your cool call 1800 Granger click granger.com or just Stop by Granger for the ones who get it Done Hey Tommy from the runers and welcome to This podcast special I've recently been Up to Cumbria with new bands to test a Load of kits and while there I got the Opportunity to chat to three of the Brand's athletes Kate Avery Zack Hannah And Jacob Atkin Kate has represented Britain and Europe at a number of both Track and Cross Country Events she's Been at the Commonwealth gam she's been At the European cross country Championship she won the NCAA cross Country and she won the UTA 50 km Zack Hannah has a number of achievements Under his belt including becoming fifth At the 2022 World mountain and trail Running championships fifth at the European Mountain running championships Third overall at the mountain Running World Cup and first of the matorn ultrax Vertical Jacob Atkin is a f Runner a

Mountain Runner and a trail Runner and He's had gold and silver individual Medals at European Mountain running Championships in this podcast I'll be Chatting to them about their races their Training and the kit that they use to do That right let's dive in and see what we Spoke About okay so I'm here with not one but Three New Balance athletes Zack Hannah Kate Avery and Jacob adkin now we are Currently on a retreat with New Balance To test some new kit so we're going to Chat today about you guys your training Your races what you're up to at the Moment and we're going to talk a little Bit about the kit that we're testing and Your favorite kit from New Balance so Let's start with Zach what are you up to At the moment and what's your focus in Training uh yeah thanks for having me on The podcast I think at the minute I'm Just training in between races and based Back at home here ni and back in Northern Ireland so I'm just training Enjoying running with my dog and just Not doing a whole lot really and what is Your main uh area of events that you you Normally training for uh mostly uphill In VK races but this summer I've tried To move up into like 20 25k distances Sort of trying to Branch out a bit but If you were to ask me what my favorite Is is the VK and the uphill races I

Never tried a VK yeah they are they are Savage they are like even job could Vouch for them in that one they're the Hardest 35 40 minutes of running you Probably ever do how how does somebody Get into VK from where do you where do You where do you you go from to decide That that's the next the thing you want To try I just enjoy running up hell I Thank God I think it's a good question Cuz it's such like a niche Sport and I Think yeah if you're thinking about Trying it I'd also ask that question of How do you get into it and where are the Events because I don't know I was lucky Enough to just have people help me and They like try this race try that race um But yeah it's very Niche if you just do Road running or track running like how Do I yeah I don't even know how I mean If you people who listening to this Podcast who maybe aren't Trail Runners Aren't aren't off-road Runners they Would probably just think a Trail's a Trail but there such a Complicated like selection of events Selection of races yeah and VK is one That I wouldn't even think of as adding Into that list of options of races that You could do I think the UK in Particular like it's not it's not um set In Tradition As it is in in the on the continent in Europe where uphill races not

Necessarily VK but uphill specific races Are more way more common and it's where Mountain running the term Mountain Running I suppose started you know we've Got fail running started in the UK um And that is defined by an up and down Race there's only like there's less than Five probably uphill races in the UK and They are some of them are not like they Put on for trial races for the kind of The the championship races which a lot a Lot of people you know for obvious Reasons maybe they might not want to do So yeah um but as you say like it There's a whole expansive range of uh Disciplines now to almost almost segment Segmentation of trail running itself now Yeah um because everyone from the Athlete to a race organizer to sponsors Want to have a a portion of the cake yes And do do you all race VK uh I think It's just mainly Zach and me um yeah Could could persuade Kate to do Something some point I've done a few I've done a few uphill races which by The way is not a VK as I learned as I Entered a V and I was like yeah yeah I've done a bunch of these before and They we spoke about which ones they were And um they were like no you you have Not done a VK so um I've done one and I Haven't rushed back so I'm quite Interested in this VK stuff cuz I've Never really spoken to about it where

Are the big famous vks I know I've been To Shaman is there one there yeah sham VK for the marathon D Blanc weekend Myself and Jacob have actually both won That one um where's the other big ones There's a one of France called Lai LEF I Think the world that's where the world Records are usually set I think it is Currently but that's um I think it's up A this an old um mining Railway track And the runners have to wear a helmet Because of um falling potentially Falling Rock and stuff from this like Track that not many people would go up Other for this other than for this race So yeah um so the pictures are quite Quite funny for me like bit odd but um Yeah don't it's not a race that you want To make even harder is it no well you Have to use PS in it to like I don't Think you're allowed to enter with PS Which is put me off it um there's a Kavana in Italy is a very famous one as Well um doth is that a famous thas I Think it's popular yeah it's not a quick One but ad the main hob for the VK hly In France um but there's that mana and I Say like the shamany one be one of my Favorites really really enjoy that one Yeah I me it's not it's not a Straightforward you know it's hard Enough to just just run up 1,000 MERS Under 5K but it's uh it's another thing When they add a bit of technicality to

It and in in regards to the the Shamy One that's got some like V fat at the Top and and the path is quite like Eroding away quite a bit near the top as Well so yeah it's uh add adds challenge To the Already we'll move on from vk's a bit CU We we've completely delved into this but I'm still quite interested in it so for You guys who don't live in one of these Countries that is famous for having vks How do you train for it where where you Live uh just multiple reps of of of a Same Hill I think uh I think you can get A lot from supplemental training for Example like like gym work or uh bike Work but but yeah ultimately you can't Be running up a steep hill that's Specific to the Terra you will race on Or want to race on so yeah and then Other otherwise if you are lucky enough To travel out to you know go on H to uh A more mountainous Place uh in Europe Then that's your chance to kind of bash Out some some uh lot of meters in a week Um and try and strengthen up all right Well maybe we'll do another podcast at Some point just on vks because I have Lots more questions but um question for So you guys you both are you you've Always been Trail Runners You' you've Always been focused on the outdoor stuff Kate you did you start as only doing Track or did you do Trail and track at

The same time and move into Trail um I Think I started like a lot of people do At school everybody has to do a School Cross country um and I did that and then Yeah since I was 13 when I started Running only ever done track and cross Country um and then it was just the past Couple of years that I transitioned into Trails and why did you do that oh it was You know it was something that I was Watching from afar and I was intrigued By it and if I'm honest I thought about It for years before I made that change And it was actually Pete Riley who I Work with at New Balance um that we had A a call after one of the European Crosses and he said oh you know we're Like trying to set up this team and he Was like go in think about it I was like I don't need to think about it I'm doing It and he's like no no no go and I was Like no I don't need to and that was That wow okay and is that something Trail running I it's changed quite a lot Over the past 10 15 years it's become Much more noticeably it's something that People want to do now as opposed to the Old days it was more like fell running And things like that it was based on Location but was was the the wi spread Interest in TR running a big factor in That as well um I think it just evolving As a sport and social media has done a Massive is a massive part in that and

Being able to see it and see the Different races the different locations And the atmosphere I think yeah just or For me like I didn't grow up in a family That went out for Walks Like Jacob was Talking about earlier and out in nature And doing that kind of stuff so it's It's very different um so I think yeah Just the sport growing and soci it's Definitely it's definitely a sport that Lends itself quite well to social media I find um whereas track isn't Necessarily one that's particularly once You've maybe posted a few pictures of Track you can't just keep posting them Do you know what I think this like I was In samitz earlier and people run around The tracks and the flat trails and They're all like oh look at the Mountains and I'm like yeah I'm running In the mountains you guys are just Looking at them um but yeah it's it's a Special SP but so look thinking back to When you were very focused on the track Side of things how do you think the Mental aspect of training for track is Different than the than training for the Trails it's like I find it obviously You're still doing your hard sessions It's still hard whatever you're training For whether it's an 800 M or 100 mile on The trails it's hard there's still Aspects to train but it's it's different It's a different

Intensity uh the the focus on pierces Isn't as strong like that's not to say That I don't want to hit a certain Pierce in my track sessions or my tempos And stuff like that it's obviously still A focus but it's not the be all in hand All now and I just enjoy the training so Much more it's a it's a yeah I mean I've I've done both and it mentally it's a Very big difference between those two Types of running so it's interesting You've gone from from from track to to Trail cuz they're qu extremes really It's not just road to Trail is it you've Actually gone from the one location to The most beautiful locations in the World Yeah with Robin Hood gold you don't need A silver spoon to eat up the financial Favors of the 1% Robin Hood gold allows The resourceful individual to earn the Very liberal rate of 4.5% apy on Uninvested cash receive unlimited 1% % Deposit bonuses and be rewarded with a Handsome 3% retirement boost on an IRA Account get the Privileges of the high Net worth for any net worth for just $5 A month sign up at robinhood.com Gold Terms apply for product specific Disclosures visit robinhood.com gold Investing involves risk rate M change Gold membership is offered by Robin Hood Gold LLC cool okay so let's talk a Little bit about running achievements so

Um you you've all between you done a lot Of races You've Won races between you What would you say let's let's go Through each of you Zach what would you Say is your biggest running achievement To date probably fifth in the world M Running championships in 2022 um going Into that race I I was going well that Season but to be honest with you top 10 Was probably the goal but to finish Fifth was just like where the hell did That come out of but that was just Couldn't believe it what were you Expecting when you went into that race Where do you think you would you'd come I say top 10 was like top 10 would have Been real good run top 15 would have Been like satisfying but like whenever I Was able to get over and like it was Only like 15 seconds off of bronze medal Wow I was like well like where do you Put that 15 seconds out of like I was Even though I was buzzing with the race You're still thinking like we could have Maybe pulled back that 15 seconds but no I'm absolutely delayed with that result But you know it always just leaves you Wanting more nearly does that mean You're going to you're going to attempt It again and uh well we see y to be Honest with you every year like it's all Changed now it used to be every year you Had a world and European championships Where now it's changed the B annual so

Next year's a World Championships where This year in 2024 was Europeans so is it September 2025 is the next World Championships in can Frank in the Parnes So it's going to be a different ball Game cuz the last World Championships in Thailand uh 2022 were in Thailand and All three of us were there and that was Probably a trip of a lifetime I bet I Bet yeah it was quite experien that so So how about you then Jacob um I I don't Know if you allow this but like you can Have anything you want okay cuz like in Terms of I you get like objectively like Statistically like if you if you if you Like judg judgment judging it I'd say It's like the winning European Champs in 2019 and also team team gold as well I Think that was the first like senior Men's gold for a long time and it was a Group of well there was three of us who Was Scottish and one of them we claim Was Scotland cuz his parents lived in Scotland for a While so uh that was like an amazing Experience with them and the whole team But also just another highlight of kind Of my career and running so far as just Some of the races I've been doing at Home um especially like just after Lockdowns eased after for Co and I just Stayed in the UK didn't travel as much I Did some of the fail races again um all New ones as well and I just found that

Kind of rejuvenated my enjoyment of the Sport and really help me like mentally And also with training as well just gave Me a different stimulus and these are Races that you hadn't done before yeah Some of them had been tried a few new Ones um like I did some of the English Championship Series um and then a couple Of like classic Wednesday night midweek Fail races which are just like so much Fun um you you know turn out pay a Fiverr um sometimes not even that and Have a good have a good night racing and Go to the pub after um get absolutely Eaten by MGI sometimes but all part of The experience and um yeah there's Nothing kind of fulfills kind of your Enjoyment of just the pure pess of the Sport as that um yeah okay I don't know We got asked I've been asked this Question a few times and I actually Don't know what event it is that I would Pick because I think they're special for Different reasons Um but something that I'm very proud of Is competing for GB over track Outdoors Indoors cross and the trails it's not Bad um yeah that's something I'm really Proud of nice okay well let's um let's Move on from events let's just talk a Little bit about training nice easy one For you I want each of your well it Doesn't have to be your exact favorite Training session but give me a training

Session that you really like to do I Actually done this one last last Tuesday Um I think can BR farest which isn't far From me um it was five 58 minutes uphill 5 minutes down on the same Hills on a Sax in a trail called the zigzags it's Like .7 M long just over a k averaging Like 19 20% so roughly eight minutes up And you turn and then you sort of you Don't go full tilt on the way down sort Of like go an effort that you're not Going to completely bust yourself for Turning to come back up but it's roughly An hour long I covered 10K and I just Got over 1,000 M of climbing so like That for me is like really good specific Stuff so that's 5 minutes up a pretty Steep hill no no8 minutes up8 minutes up A steep hill and then 5 minutes Comfortably down yeah e going back to Theum to get back to the start in five Minutes back down to the same spot you Started at and then you do that five Times that's nice yeah that's completely Dependent on the where you're at at the Time CU that session could be it could Be horrible or if you're going well it Can be good well thankfully last Tuesday Was actually was feeling good so was Actually went better than what I Expected but then as well you move on to The flat I love a good like 10 B it's Just something about that especially Whenever know whenever I'm doing that

With my mates like when all four of us Are going well that's just one them Sessions so when you finish you're like That was class did they did they join You for the uphill one as well not Chance no they they if they' seen me They W even get out of the car they seen That session now so that says it all but No it's I think it's good to have a a Range of both H and flat SS to enjoy cuz Then you can sort of mix things up Depending on how you're feeling and Watch thee of the Season you're at yeah Yeah yeah and depending on where you are At the time and what you can do yeah Exactly go then Kate um yeah I guess Like there's a mixture of sessions but I Like a Dr like an un in Tempo Trail Session just a one that you can flow on I quite enjoy long tempos um but then I Also do love like a 16 or 20 by 400 on The track to that's Good all right mix Jacob um probably Bal Com combination of both of those um yeah I think like I think the good thing About doing more trail running mount Running putting that into your trailing Plan or or aiming foras in that Discipline is that you get so much more Variety in your in your what sessions You do therefore you actually enjoy Sessions more because you're not doing Say a couple of flat sessions a week and And doing that week and week out you're

Actually doing maybe one Hill Session One Flat session so you actually look Forward to the other one come the next Week but yeah so like as they say I Enjoy like a hill session so that's Probably for me like uh a long uphill Broken into reps but with uphill jog Recoveries so because it's quite Specific to Dr recoveries something People or or walk if it's particularly Steep but but you obviously lower the Intensity in that recovery time period But um you continue uphill uh obviously That requires either a long a big hill Or you do it on the treadmill or stair Master So if if you if you really want to be Want to be a run influencer you got to Go on the stair Master for those uphill Sessions um so yeah or like yeah nice 400 met track session something like That you know Yeah all right well let let's let's jump Into kit then so we're here testing a Load of Kit or I'm testing a load of Kit You guys have already tested lot most of The kit I imagine so you're all new Balanced athletes you all do relatively Similar events from the perspective of The kit that you use for a general Runner to look at what would each of you Say is your based on the type of running You do and the events you do what is the Shoe of choice for you or the shoes of

Choice for your training Jacob do you Want to start that yeah yeah um so for Me I'm you know my go-to's off the shoe Rack would be the hero which is on the V8 at the moment and the Venom which is The new one to the line this summer and And we were talking about the Venom on The run and I was a bit confused about This because it's the Venom hasn't been Particularly well well it it's it's just Come out of this hasn't it but it's a Shoe that I didn't know a lot about and It looks very much like the the rebel V4 Doesn't it it's like a trail version of The re the rebel V4 yeah exciting Looking shoe very interesting I think a Lot of people love the rebel V4 so it's It's interesting what is it about that Shoe that you you you like so it's it's A lot lighter than some of the other Shoes in the range especially the hero So it just kind it lends itself to being A more of a session uptempo shoe um and If you're doing an uphill or Hill Session you want maybe something that's A bit more lightweight so it kind of It Just fits the bill really in that in That regard and yeah they carries over Like you say it carries over the kind of The technology from the roadside so it Is technically the rebel Trail but adds A little bit of a grip on the outside to Help with the trails so yeah and you and What are you what what would be the main

Is it using us for racing are you using It for just training uh depends on the Race so if it was a short race I'd Probably use the Venom if it was a Longer race you know 15K plus I'd Probably go for the SC Trail super comom Trail um so that's just a bit more bit More cushion to it and a bit more kind Of sturdy uh shoe uh with the car play Play as well but it's quite a nice kind Of it doesn't quite feel like a carbon Plat shoe you wouldn't thought it if you Wouldn't told it um so I think in that Regard it's quite it doesn't pound your Legs too much like it doesn't force you Into certain positions as much as a as a As a as another carbon plate shoe would Um so yeah it's quite a nice kind of Balance there not yeah we we I've just Had a go with with with the shoe and it Definitely is a more subtle feels quite Light feels really light it but it's it Is you're right it's a it's a subtle Plate in there that doesn't necessarily If you yeah if if you told me it didn't Have a plate in I probably wouldn't have Questioned you yeah I think it's just All about that that mid is really quite Quite good it does a lot of lot of the Job for it um and the fork the C play is Forked as well so it's so it can kind of Move lat laterally as well more Flex Yeah cool okay Zach hit me what have you Got uh Dave the daily sh would be hero

V8 or the 1080 because not every day is On the trail some days you just like to Mix up and go on the road um the morx The fresh from morx Trail it's just I Just love that shoe just for easy days I Think when you're when you're in the Middle of a big trailing block and your Legs are just TI just seems to be that Shoe you're able to go out and you know You don't yeah obvious tire but it just Seems to rejuvenate the muscles nearly Um as well for racing probably the SC Trail over the longer stuff and the Venom for the uphills or the shorter Races and maybe sum unknown soft grind If I'm racing at home because the 6 and 1 half mil lugs and just allows for when You're trumping through the bogs and Over the real Rocky ground it's like the Shoe hasn't let me down yet running Around the Ms and like if it can COPE in The mornings it can it can cope anywhere So it's like that's the one shoe that I Always make sure that I have ready to go Because just for the weather changing Especially over the winter that's like Always at hand and uh yes I don't really CH chop and change too much shoes I sort Of I know I like I stick to what I know I'm not going to change something just Because I fancy a different shoe has to Be Yeah no each sh has a purpose that's the Beauty of it you can each sh has a

Purpose and then you sort of know for What what what's coming up next right While I'm going to need that shoe for This session and uh yeah that's really Good mine's exactly the same as that Okay uh the only thing that I'd add into That is I actually we the SC Elites for My flat sessions I just put the road Shoe on I want to feel good I want to Run fast but yeah as well We talking about Elite V4 uh yeah yeah Okay uh so I would add that in the mix Of like my training cycle but yeah I'd Race in the SC Trail ones they might go To uh I like them long runs would be in The Heros MH um are you are you using The more X yes okay cuz Jak if you you Don't you've not picked the morx is that Just because the style of your running Maybe it doesn't need that much Cushioning yeah yeah I'm I'm not a fan Of of big stacks and uh or to be honest I've actually tried the Box so that's I I might you I can't Judge until I do try but in general in The past and up to now I'm not I'm not Um a big one for the for maximal cushion Shoes yeah no I'm saying I'm not saying They don't got a play and people you Know wouldn't suit them but uh for me I Kind of prefer like I like to feel the Ground basically okay uh all right last Question nice and simple if you can do Any race in the

World that's not a simple one what would You pick just hit you don't need to go Too much depth with this does it have to Be a race or event or can it be like Event race anything you want to do that Is a challenge anything that you may Maybe it's part of your career later on You go that's something I'd like to tick Off might even something that you might Not even be ever be able to Do Bob G good Choice I'm you can't even do you can't Even do T 20K yet mate ex I'm I'm Suggesting you do it he's the K no I don't I don't know I the the Round the kind of big rounds in the UK They they're quite like you know they Are iconic and it would be cool to do Them but I'm not sure that that would be My top pick and I'm trying to think of My top pick right now um all right but Yeah Kate Kate's got something I'm going To be boring and see utmp oh at some Point not anytime soon I would really Like to do the Mila she's out there for Next Year uh like the buob Grim does not Appeal to me at all like the fell Running might upset a few people there Does not appeal to me in the slightest Very different to trail races uh but Yeah boring but I'd really like to it's Not a boring race absolutely not okay

What about you guys still thinking I'm Still thinking I think see I think to be Honest with you that's the beauty of Trail running and M running F running Whatever it is everyone a Road Runner You ask what's do us the event it's Going to be New York it's going to be London there's like three or four events Everyone wants to do but I don't think You're going to get a trail Runner who Everyone's going to have the same answer There's K wants to do UTMB I have no Notion of ever doing you TM don't know What I'm same yeah Jacob's the same so It's like there's three of us of three Different answers W do the same but uh That's such a hard one to pick I if it's A race I would love to just take like a Week and do the UTMB route over a week Want to do stand what I would love to do I would love to do just with a group of Friends stand in the refuges and bring My dog with me you dog I'd love to bring My dog and just as I say it's just going Out in the mountains with your friends And just having a good time yeah but I Don't know what R is kind of that's fun You can have that that's absolutely fun Um yeah I can't really think of a re There's too many think of us the honest Answer yeah definitely um I mean like I Think the the more the challenge side of The sport is quite cool I think and like There's a a good kind of voute in

Scotland called the K GES 4 thousanders Um and it's yeah it's kind of one that My coach and I thought we'd do like end Of 2020 as like a postco type challenge Just getting back out and doing Something cool what is that um so it's The 4,000 ft is it the four yeah 4,000 Ft mountains in the k um is how many of Them is again I've got no idea yeah i' Forgotten now I've never even thought About doing It um so yeah something like that and Like exploring something an area of your Kind of home country that you've not Been to before um over the course of a Certain amount of time it's kind of Quite appealing nice very different Answers than you would get as you say From Road Who probably have a a very strict list Of things they all want to do um well BR Thank you very much guys it was really Interesting and uh great to chat to you About Kit and races and training and all Sorts of things so um thanks a lot and Good luck with the hopefully the races You get to do over the next year or so Yeah thanks for having us thank you Thank you thank you Oh at your job do you ever have to deal With a nose roller how about a snub Pulley well if you're installing a new Conveyor belt system dealing with the Different components can sound like

You're speaking a foreign language Luckily you've got a team ready to help Grangers technical product specialist Are fluent in maintenance repair and Operations so whenever you want to talk Shop just Reach Out call click Granger.com or just stop by Granger for The ones who get it done